A Good Feeling and the Self-Contained Dream Stage

They are, according to the Veda, four stages - the waking, dream, deep sleep, and the liberated stage (turiya). In the first stage, one is awake to the objective world and is oriented outward. Since one identifies with the gross body complex at this stage, the experiences are also gross. In the dream the self is in-faced. Reactions, responses, and experiences are all self-contained. They do not belong to the area outside of oneself. Next comes deep sleep (sushupti). This stage is free from even dreams. There is no feeling of either separation or identity, the particular or the universal, experiencer or experience. There is only the Atma, in which one has temporarily merged. In the fourth step (Turiya), the individual is no more so. It has attained the basic truth of life and of creation. Those who have reached this step no longer have concern with the individual self. These are four states one experiences, but they are also stages one has to go through in search of Self-Knowledge.

Baba 

There is nothing greater than listening to Baba and why?

Let’s look at it together. Why not everybody makes that experience? Because we think we know already? What do we know and what do we not know?

They are, according to the Veda, four stages - the waking, dream, deep sleep, and the liberated stage (turiya). In the first stage, one is awake to the objective world and is oriented outward.

What is there we cannot understand? 

Veda, do we not understand the word Veda, the oldest holy scriptures and we could never get it if we would read it, after all it is much too much and we would just read it, to make Veda come alive we are with a master, he is the embodiment of Veda and what is the message today of Veda?
He is telling us according to Veda there are four stages, the waking, dream, deep sleep and the liberated stage (turiya).

We know the waking stage, we experience it in the waking state of consciousness, but Baba talks here about waking stage and not the level of consciousness and he goes on explaining it.

We know that we have dreams, even if we don’t know the dream stage, we think we know and we know in deep sleep we just sleep, no dream, no notion of anything, just deep sleep and all that is based on our experience, therefore, we can conclude that Veda is the wisdom of life.

What is there that great in thinking it over in Baba’s words?

We know we are awake and now I am awake, a few hours ago I don’t remember it and it had been in deep sleep I guess and last night was also no special dream to remember or the dream stage was just a good feeling.

Okay we have already three stages. The one we are in now, you read and I write, we are awake now.
The memory that during the dream stage was a good feeling, we were in the dream stage. We ask in the morning, did you have a good sleep? We inquire if the person had nightmares and if the dream stage was peaceful or disturbed and if there had been a good rest and deep sleep? We experience it now, because now we are in the waking stage.

And the mind will reason, but what is there that special about it, I am awake, so what? What is special about it? We have to distinguish between our waking state consciousness and the waking stage. How do we know that, we know it because we think it over.  

We get the meaning of it if we think it over, we listen to Baba’s words in thinking it over and that is great, that is why it is great to think it over.

It is not there when you answer, I am awake so what? That is a fact, but it is there when we feel it very clearly that it is not about a waking state of consciousness, but a waking stage.

What is great in thinking it over?
First of all we think about his words and not the stuff in my mind only and we get aware of the difference and that is great, we feel it after a while thinking it over it is clear there is a difference between waking stage and waking state and when I feel it I feels good.
 Why we feel good about it? In the first moment I thought that waking stage and waking consciousness is the same and in the first moment it looked the same, but after thinking it over we know there is a difference.

It is a stage or experience and a stage in our development and expanding awareness. It is a stage, followed by another stage and it is not a state, but also the states of consciousness are constantly changing and only one is stable that is transcendental awareness or pure consciousness, a level of pure being we develop by meditation.

It is great to think it over because there are subtle differences and we get only aware of it if we think it over and it happens by doing it, if we don’t think it over, we don’t have any notion about the waking stage and if we have, it is gross and just what we think it is, but after listening to Baba we know what it is and that is not the same to think what it is or to know what it is and what he is talking about, that we get in thinking it over.

They are, according to the Veda, four stages - the waking, dream, deep sleep, and the liberated stage (turiya). In the first stage, one is awake to the objective world and is oriented outward. Since one identifies with the gross body complex at this stage, the experiences are also gross.

Everything we do and think is on the gross body level and therefore, the experiences are also gross, all what we think we understand and do not understand is on that level only. It is the body and the mind. Our thoughts, our understanding, our reasoning is all on that gross level of the body complex in this stage, that is the waking stage.

It has nothing to do with the dream stage, that is a different reality and Baba tells us why.

In the dream the self is in-faced. Reactions, responses, and experiences are all self-contained. They do not belong to the area outside of oneself.

During sleep the mind is asleep and not awake and therefore, we have no waking state and no mind control, we just sleep and rest the body and the mind. What is present is sleep and in the sleep we have dreams. Baba said, he is the man who comes in our dreams to awake. That is the level we experience if it is about dreams and as he is telling us here, it is in-faced. If the mind is out-faced, the dream is in-faced. If the mind is about the objective world, the dream is about the self only. In the dream our self is reflected, in the dream it is all self-contained and it doesn’t belong to the area outside of oneself.

In the dream we have the insights and sometimes it is Baba directly who was in our dream to make sure we should awake, but some don’t do it. They think anyhow it is just a dream and forget about it, not everybody is listening to the man who is coming in our dream to awake and if we listen to his words, the other great thing what is happening, he resounds in our own dreams.

Atman reacts, reflects and resounds.
So by listening to him we get actually aware of the difference between the gross body and mind level and the waking stage and the subtle inner level of the dream stage and it feels again good and why, because we get the answers to the dreams of awakening we had before, if we listen to him in his words is the answer, he is telling us why we have a self-experience in the dream and why the higher self was light and beauty and love only and why it was in the dream, all that is answered in his words and that is a good feeling again. That is why we should listen to Baba’s words and think it over.

If we just read it, we don’t get it. We are too much in the mind. We have to think it over to get to the deeper stage of insights, what is the reflection in the dreams.

We have also those three levels in the words, listen, think it over and absorb.

Listening is on the waking stage level and thinking it over is on the dream stage of the experience and that is how it goes deeper and it begins to make sense and it does feel good, because we are not only on the waking stage of the experience.

And what means absorb, do you know it?

It is the third state, the deep sleep state, it is merging, it is the third stage if it does change again and it is only temporary merging and it is the fourth stage when it doesn’t change anymore.

Next comes deep sleep (sushupti). This stage is free from even dreams. There is no feeling of either separation or identity, the particular or the universal, experiencer or experience. There is only the Atma, in which one has temporarily merged.

During the deep sleep stage we merge temporary and that can happen during singing Bhajans we forget ourselves and we merge with him and we feel his presence. We also merge during our meditation and we don’t notice it even. If we are able to absorb we get aware of it by contemplation and we know what actually is happening in our own nature and that again feels good and it is only possible if we listen and think it over and that is why it feels good to think over his words.

In the fourth step (Turiya), the individual is no more so. It has attained the basic truth of life and of creation. Those who have reached this step no longer have concern with the individual self. These are four states one experiences, but they are also stages one has to go through in search of Self-Knowledge.

If we would be in the fourth step of experience, there is no more individual, the basic truth of life has become part of our nature and on that step we are not anymore concerned with the individual self, but with everything … not only one good person, but the whole mankind and it is non-changing and always present also when we are in the waking stage and the dream stage.

If we get aware of the mind, we get aware of illusion.

These are four states one experiences, but they are also stages one has to go through in search of Self-Knowledge.

These are subtle insights and not gross on the gross body in the waking stage.  If we listen to Baba’s words why does it feel good, because we get aware that we have to go through those different stages in search of self-knowledge. And how do we get there, we listen and think it over and we are able to absorb.

We are awake now, we had a dream during our sleep that is not the same reality as we experience now. In the sleep were no thoughts and no activity as we have now, there was no reading and writing, no computer and no thoughts. It belongs to the waking stage. What was in your dream last night? Was it peaceful, you remember it or not?

When did you have the last Baba dream and what did he tell in you dream?

We are awake now and Baba said, why ‘fear when I am here’, what is there to be scared about that we live in an illusion, we should not be scared about it, but we should like to realize it. It is awful to be in an illusion.

What are we scared about? People in the study circle on the gross mind level? That the mind asks stupid questions?

That there is no discrimination between the waking stage and the dream stage and it is not understood?

There was someone who said he would have liked Baba to be in his dream, but at the same time I feel that he doesn’t know what he is talking about and probably he didn’t want it at all, he would not want to have my experience, for sure not.

He wanted it because he thinks it is nice to have the man in the dream to awake us, but he is not aware what it means to have him in the dream.
He will not be there if we don’t listen to him. He will not come again in the dream if we don’t listen to him and ignore his dreams.

He said he wanted to have Baba in his dream and it felt to me like some idea he had from a book, but he has no idea what it means to have the man in the dream to awake us.

And I didn’t ask him if he was in his dream already and what dreams he had, maybe I should have asked. Maybe I was not aware enough that it is about the dream stage and that this dream stage is different from the waking stage.
We get only aware of it when we listen to his words and now I am aware of it and only if we are aware of it we are able to ask the right questions.

We get it only if we listen to his words and we have to think it over. If we just read it, after reading it is gone, we have not absorbed the wisdom. Thinking it over is seeing it in our own life to get a feeling for it, otherwise, it is too abstract and too far away and it goes on unnoticed.

Therefore, why is it good to listen and to think it over and to absorb?

We get aware of it, there is not only the master who comes to save us from illusion and not only one person, but all mankind, that is full of wisdom, first that he is the master and there is a master who is able to do that and that here are good people and he is here to help them to get aware of illusion and that is his task or duty as spiritual master, that is all present in that first sentence, that is why it is a joy to think it over.

The Master comes to save not one good person from illusion, but the whole of mankind. He assumes a Form that people can love, appreciate and revere. He gives joy and courage by speaking your language.

And that he takes a form that people can love is for our own good and there is no reason to be scared about it.
He has that form so that we can appreciate and revere it, he does it for us and not for himself, that is all contained in that sentence if we listen to it and also why we got lots of joy in his presence and also the courage as he was speaking our language. He didn’t do it for himself, he was like that to help us to get out of illusion.

We have to face that illusion, it is between us and the master. We can see it like a dog and we cannot get closer to him and there is a way to bypass him, but we have to know how to win the Lord’s Grace …

The only blemish that comes in between your mind and the Master is illusion. Illusion is like a fierce dog that will not allow anyone to approach the Master. You can manage to bypass it by calling out to the Master loudly so that He Himself comes down and accompanies you to His home. That is to say, you must win the Lord’s Grace to attain His proximity (Saameepyam).  Illusion is the Lord’s pet, so it will not harm you if the Lord orders it to desist from harming you. So just as you give the goldsmith a broken or a dented ornament and receive a fine jewel back, entrust your mind to the Lord. It certainly needs repair, if not complete reconstruction.

We should see the illusion like our pet and we should have more courage to face it. If we are that scared of it we should give it to the Lord that he will take care of it and what he is telling us here, we give it to the goldsmith and we will get a fine jewel back.

The mind needs repair even maybe complete reconstruction, but it is not to the others to judge the mind.

And what if there is someone telling us that the mind is not good enough and it is an attitude of  judgment. There was one like that and I answered him with Baba’s thought for the day. It is serious business if we have someone judgmental and I noticed always again that kind of attitude in the mind and I am tired of it and not only to the hypocritical too nice attitude of some who want to show love, but also the other who criticizes, to use always as he said - nice words as we had it yesterday. So they think they can tell us that the words are not nice enough.

There was one person I had problems with either she was too nice and I couldn’t take it, I went into distance as soon as she approached and it felt to me like no distance and too much and I didn’t want that, when she came and said hello, I wanted to leave on the spot again, that was someone who understood love on the outer attitude level, but the same person became also very critical and judgmental and that I couldn’t take as well and it was even more disturbing than the being too nice, but it was only on the behavior and attitude level.

The main thing is, we have to accept truth no matter what and it doesn’t mean that we judge others, but the truth is that our mind is judgmental and therefore, we have to question if it is right or wrong, if it is love or no love, what is right action, why there is judgment and we get without doubt to the insight that it is mind level.

If there are that many people in the waking stage of experience, they understand the wisdom on that level.
The dream level or Baba’s words are not listened too, but they just use Baba’s words to enforce what they have understood. It is upside down, instead of listening to him, they listen to their own mind and the counselor ego and they take Baba’s words just to make a point.

It is like I take Baba to explain with him my mind instead of giving my mind to him in repair.

If we have that attitude of mind it is not possible to listen to his words, because they only serve what the mind has understood and not the opposite way round.

The truth is, either we are in the waking stage and we see everything in that light only or we have realized that there is also a dream stage and we see both states actually and we understand by listening to him that we have also the experiences of deep sleep stage, that means short merging with Baba and we go on like that until it should be permanent and not changing anymore in the turiya stage.

In the circle we have mutual sharing  and everybody tells what he knows and what he thinks about it and we share experiences that can be dreams and thoughts and sometimes also judgments are there, but it doesn’t mean that we have to listen to it. We should have enough courage to face it no matter what.

But what about question, why does it feel that good to think over Baba’s words?

It is probably explained best with the deep sleep stage. If we are only in the waking stage it is only one part of us, the rest is unconscious and forgotten and we go from waking stage to the next and hope that the rest will make also more sense in time to come.

If we are aware also of the dream stage, we know we have to question it and we think it over with the help of his words and the insights begin to make sense and by that, listening to his words and thinking it over we actually merge, it is the deep sleep stage even if we are awake and that is why it feels that good and if we get aware that there is only one and only ‘I am I’ and only what was in the dream and the man who comes in our dream to awake said, ‘I am the One’.
Yes he knows, he has realized it, whatever we see, but if he knows and he tells that in my own dream, in my own self, as it is all self-contained in the dream, it is part of my own self as well and that is the conclusion of it, if he is that, I am that as well.

Does that answer the question why it feels good?
And there is still something else, it has to be shared, it is not only for me, even if the insights tells, ‘I am I’, it means the I is the universe and all are included and ‘we’ are all.

It means, ‘He is that, I am that, all are that’ and does that make sense or does it explain why it does feel good?